Engineering and design student insights

Student projects, placements, research and study experiences in the Faculty of Engineering & Design

Tagged: dCarb

Everyday tales for country folk...

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📥  Department of Architecture & Civil Engineering, Postgraduate

cornflowers

I have been a city dweller for most of my life but my early childhood was rural with a herd of Friesian cows as immediate neighbours and the woods closer than the village shops. With such a background, The Archers has always felt like catching up with old friends and it was a terrible shock when the village suffered a devastating flood in March 2015. Time was suspended, in Ambridge at least, as the events of a single night were dramatised over several episodes. After the waters subsided the causes and consequences of the flood continued to be explored, intensely at first then periodically, as the village recovered and reflected.

Individual and community stories can be a useful source of information for understanding flood events but need to be used with care to ensure that they do not compromise privacy, security or wellbeing. This makes a dramatised story, where the reactions and responses of fictional characters can be explored in detail, very useful as the basis for considering how resilience measures might be developed and deployed.

One aspect of the flood that has been revisited has been the involvement of a certain Rob Titchener. He had been implicated in blocking a culvert that contributed to the extent of the flooding; he had been reluctant to help with rescue then hailed a hero for his actions; and there was suspicion over his involvement in the fate of a dog, Scruff, as well as the later disappearance of a migrant worker, Stefan. These were woven in to the larger scenario of his coercive relationship with Helen Archer, which reached a shocking conclusion last year.

It was as this story played out, that I discovered Academic Archers - a forum where storylines were discussed not just for their entertainment value but by experts with an intellectual interest in the storylines. So when a call for papers to be presented at a second conference was made, just days after characters had been discussing the drying times of their properties near the River Am, I took a deep breath and submitted an abstract.

By fortuitous timing, the Flood Resilient House at BRE Watford was launched just a week before the conference. Speaking to assembled built environment and insurance professionals before opening the house, Emma Howard-Boyd, Chair of the Environment Agency, emphasised the need for personal responsibility and welcomed the project as an opportunity to demonstrate and test solutions.

BRE FR House

This provided some useful details and photographs to use in my talk alongside mapping from fan fiction.  The house also featured on BBC Countryfile the next day though I am not sure how many of the audience will have seen it as the first section (08:30-16:30) was during the Sunday evening episode of The Archers!

DSC_0127 (2)

 

The shed – a short essay on architecture and society

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📥  Department of Architecture & Civil Engineering, Postgraduate

Think the shed hasn't made its mark on architecture and society? Think again...


Introduction

A large proportion of talk from us researchers is about the value of our research, why it’s cool and how it could help sort out a lot of the world’s big problems. And so we should talk in such a way. But once in a while, it’s refreshing and invigorating to divert our gaze from the lofty questions and terrible predicaments of our age – and seek something new in a familiar design.

In the spirit of one of my literary heroes, Alain de Botton, I shall take you through a short illustrated essay to restore the dignity of that architecturally misunderstood, true friend of humanity – the shed.

What contributions has the shed made to architecture and society? Bob Harvey [CC BY-SA 2.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0)], via Wikimedia Commons

What contributions has the shed made to architecture and society?
Bob Harvey [CC BY-SA 2.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0)], via Wikimedia Commons

The Oxford English Dictionary's definition of the shed is rather narrow, focussing on the domestic garden or tool-shed...

“A slight structure built for shelter or storage, or for use as a workshop, either attached as a lean-to a permanent building or separate; often with open front or sides.”

… so I shall expand my scope to include warehouses and their ilk, arguably siblings of the domestic shed. Are you ready? Let's begin...


Familiarity

Breeds contempt! The shed has an unfortunate association with either domestic or working drudgery, so it is prudent to remind ourselves that it has been revolutionary in human history. It has enabled us to store our harvests - it would be hard to overstate the influence of this in the development of civilisation. My personal favourite example of this ‘early revolutionary shed’ has to be the Egyptians’ Granary structure in the popular PC game, Age of Empires. I don’t know of its archaeological accuracy, but what a thing of beauty!

Granary of the Egyptian civilisation in the Stone Age, as portrayed in Age of Empires I. Courtesy of Microsoft Studios.

Granary of the Egyptian civilisation in the Stone Age, as portrayed in Age of Empires I. Courtesy of Microsoft Studios.

Our ability to store food in warehouses is still vitally important today. How easy it is to take all this once revolutionary technology for granted today.

Although less true for foodstuffs, much is made of the influence of the digital retail economy’s influence on the urban built environment - its erosion of high streets and town centres. But it’s false to suggest that the web has dispensed with the need for retail buildings altogether. The enormous warehouses belonging to retail giants such as Amazon, Tesco, and notoriously, Sports Direct, are now the physical link in the fiendish process of sourcing and despatching products to and from around the world. Whether you love, loathe or tolerate them, these corporate behemoths who facilitate much of our daily lives with their logistical feats are, at the end of the day, still dependent upon the humble shed.

The enormous Sports Direct HQ and warehouse in Shirebrook, Derbyshire, UK.

The enormous Sports Direct HQ and warehouse in Shirebrook, Derbyshire, UK. Ian Paterson [CC BY-SA 2.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0)], via Wikimedia Commons


Atmosphere

Many domestic sheds across the land are witness to nothing more remarkable than lawnmowers, long-forgotten trampolines and perhaps the odd model railway set, yet the shed is the prime haven for the discoverer and inventor.

Is it the freedom from distraction, protection from mocking voices or simply convenience has made the domestic shed the place of so much human ingenuity? Whatever its x-factor is, it has been birthplace for a plethora of advances, as diverse as Marie Skłodowska Curie and Pierre Curie’s early experiments on new elements to Sir James Dyson’s invention of the bagless vacuum cleaner.

The inspirational and architectural potential of the shed as resurged in recent years - perhaps by people seeking something lacking in their homes.

Marie Skłodowska Curie and Pierre Curie doing some Nobel-Prize winning work in their shed.

Marie Skłodowska Curie and Pierre Curie doing some Nobel-Prize winning work in their shed.


Aesthetics

Cobwebs and some slightly wonky pine slats are de rigeur for most domestic sheds, whilst numbingly vast sheets of corrugated sheet metal are the look of choice for their industrial brethren. But this has not always been the case, and still is not always so. I shall use counter-examples that I have encountered on my travels in Somerset.

The Tithe Barn in Bradford-on-Avon impresses firstly by scale - it stands 51 metres long and 9.5 metres wide. Venturing inside, it reveals its astonishing craftsmanship – a timber cruck roof, most of which has survived from the 14th century, supported by the buttressed walls of fine limestone. Perhaps such grandeur is unsurprising, as it was built to serve Shaftesbury Abbey in Dorset, at that time the richest nunnery in England. Although I’m glad to see the back of the feudal system it facilitated, surely there is no finer shed then this in the land?

The stunning cruck roof of the Tithe Barn in Bradford-on-Avon, Somerset, UK. Courtesy of English Heritage.

The stunning cruck roof of the Tithe Barn in Bradford-on-Avon, Somerset, UK. Courtesy of English Heritage.

In more recent history is the Bath branch of discount supermarket Lidl, built in 1966-67. Originally built as a factory for a manufacturer of office furniture, I have judiciously deemed it an honourary member of the shed family as it was built as a single interior space. What makes it special is only visible once inside – influenced by the style of Mies van der Rohe, it was the first building in Britain to make use of Mero space frame technology for its roof trusses. On a social level, it was architecturally notable for having no partitions between craftspeople and managers. Converted to a Lidl within the last 5 years, one can admire the spectacular geometry above your head whilst in an achingly long checkout queue.

The roof trusses of Lidl in Bath, using a Mero space frame. Courtesy of Phil Turton / Historic England.

The roof trusses of Lidl in Bath, using a Mero space frame. Courtesy of Phil Turton / Historic England.


Conclusions

This statement might seem cheesier than a budget Parmesan - but sheds are really a lot like us humans. Though often seemingly dull, they often have the capacity to dazzle, either in the appearance or the activities they facilitate. And even when they really do seem dull, they fulfil critical functions in our societies incredibly well. How we’d miss them if they were gone.

 

Lifelong Learning - sharing a love of Structures

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📥  Department of Architecture & Civil Engineering, Postgraduate

Clifton Suspension Bridge from the Observatory platform

Every student is different but mature students have had more time than most to accumulate differences! In my case, I have returned to study having worked in practice, qualified as a Chartered Structural Engineer, had children and taught at a post-92 University. But in each stage of this traverse through my portfolio career, I have been grateful for the support and inspiration of the Institution of Structural Engineers. This has included, but by no means been limited to, technical talks offering a window on others' experience. It is perhaps easy to take these for granted with the luxury of a choice of research seminars and talks on campus almost every week, but for Engineers outside research-intensive Universities the talks provide a valuable connection and opportunity for professional development. However, as a parent, it can be difficult to attend meetings, even when they are local. Six pm starts are great for those able to go straight from work but are not so easy when the logistics of juggling after school and evening childcare means dashing home before hand!

So I was delighted to see that the Institution of Structural Engineers President’s Inaugural Address this year was to be made available on Livestream. It was still challenging to get the children rounded up and fed for 6pm so it was a few minutes after that I tuned in but without the embarrassment of clunking doors and finding the last remaining seat. And as a remote viewer, fire evacuation procedures were of limited relevance in any case! By the time 2017 President, Ian Firth, started speaking, I was happily settled and beginning to appreciate further benefits. As a shorter than average Engineer, I am used to seeing only part of presentation slides unless the lecture theatre has a particularly generous rake or I have managed to get right to the front. This time I could see every slide and hear every word. The talk itself was interesting and entertaining; well worth catching up with as a webinar if you missed it live.

But an unexpected benefit of an evening webinar was revealed later. I’ve previously tended to join lunchtime events, linking to ICE Yorkshire for Jenny Cooke’s "Lunch and Learn" talk on Communicating Climate Change (still available) and to the BRE for an update on Peter Bonfield’s Property Flood Resilience Action Plan. These took place whilst my children were at school but with an evening meeting they were at home. My son first walked through as pictures of buildings following natural disasters were on the screen. He quickly concluded that Structural Engineers were not yet rivalling Danger Mouse in keeping London safe and returned to the TV. However, about a quarter of an hour later he rejoined me, just as Ian Firth was talking about the need for bridges in poor developing societies. This really grabbed his attention, not just because the children were of a similar age but because he also relies on a bridge for his daily walk to and from school, across the River Frome in Bristol.

Boy crossing river on an old footbridge

Hapenny Bridge across the River Frome, Bristol

He continued to watch with me through to the end, though was rather dismissive of the Robot Bridge Building as he’d seen it all before on Dick & Dom’s Absolute Genius: Monster Builds! The next day on our walk to school, we were able to discuss the talk further and think about how he would improve the bridge. This led rather neatly into a weekend where we saw both Second Severn Crossing and the Clifton Suspension Bridge from unusual perspectives.

Second Severn Crossing from Spaniorum

A privileged view of the Second Severn Crossing

So thank you IStructE for allowing me the opportunity to see such an interesting talk - and thank you Ian Firth for inspiring not only me but a 10 year old who is already considering whether he might be able to follow Brunel beyond the Avon Gorge.

An edited version of this blog is available on the IStructE website

 

HIGH DENSITY POLYURETHANE FOAMS

  

📥  Department of Architecture & Civil Engineering, Postgraduate

My PhD project, looking at materials suitable for 3D printing buildings using swarming aerial robots, began with investigating low density, expanding polyurethane foam ‘LD40’ (a) manufactured by the company Isothane. Now it is the turn of high density polyurethane foams, and the studies have used Reprocell 300 (b) and Reprocell 500 (c), commercially available foams manufactured by the same company.

foam

While LD40 is established in the construction industry as an insulating material, the higher density foams are not readily associated with construction. Reprocell 300 is usually found as a substitute for timber in prop and set design along with applications such as balustrades and mantelpieces, whereas Reprocell 500 is primarily used for deep sea buoyancy applications.

Blocks of foam created so that the materials may be tested in line with the British standards, have been primarily made by hand mixing on the high density foams, such as the compressive strength test specimens shown in the figure.

Through trial and error, I arrived at a recipe for making the high density specimens. Firstly, I heat the two liquid components (one resin, one hardening agent) to 30°C, pour together and hand-mix for 90 seconds. The creamy, viscous liquid then turns a darker brown and becomes much less viscous as the mixed liquid heats up and the polymerisation process begins. I then stir again until the 150 second mark, at which point the material expands. A few more careful stirs then follow until I withdraw and the material quickly hardens, becoming solid at 180 seconds and feeling like a block of concrete.

This recipe has produced specimens which exceed the density stated in the manufacturer’s literature, most notably with the Reprocell 500 (specimens average 685 kg/m3). Compressive tests on the 500 have shown strength in excess of 30 MPa, astonishingly competitive with concrete. Flexural tests have also shown strengths indicating the material is competitive with the lower range of timbers. Reprocell 300 has around a third of the compressive strength of the 500.

Reprocell 500 has therefore shown that it has potential to be a structural material. The downside of denser specimens of course is that the material does not expand quite so freely so I am having to use more of the liquid components!

Making 500 specimens with my little syringe device outlined in the previous post has proved to be challenging. Despite experimenting with longer tubing and multiple static mixers, the material is being deposited in its creamy viscous state, and then the darker / hotter / thinner / runnier phase is occurring on the surface of the mat after deposition, leading to lateral spreading.

After the current round of tests are complete, several options will be investigated, most notably whether a catalyst may be applied to speed up the reaction time and the investigation of whether particles can be added to the material to favourably alter its rheological properties – these may include clay nanoparticles, graphene, carbon fibres, or ways to combine the lower density foam with the higher density foam.

Barrie Dams 19/01/2017

 

Cold homes - the "silent" killer.

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📥  Department of Architecture & Civil Engineering, Postgraduate

fuel-poverty

 

So almost all of us are back in Bath after a couple of weeks of over-eating, prolonged exposure to relatives and dreaming up wholly unachievable New Year’s resolutions. As the weather gets colder and we are no longer ensconced in wonderfully warm living rooms with copious amounts of mulled wine, you might be questioning how on earth you’re going to cope with the arctic conditions of your house share… Well, you’re not alone.

Cold homes are estimated to cost the NHS approximately £1.3 billion per year, mostly as a result of people suffering from respiratory and cardiovascular problems. With soaring energy prices, inefficient buildings and incomes rising slower than inflation, it is no wonder that an increasing number of people struggle to attain suitable indoor temperatures. The World Health Organisation (WHO) recommends a minimum indoor temperature of 18˚C, which should be increased to 21˚C for children, disabled people and the elderly.

Unsurprisingly, cold homes have a more adverse effect on older people, whose bodies are less capable of trapping and retaining heat in comparison to a younger person. In the winter of 2014/15 there were 43,900 excess winter deaths (EWDs), 83% of which were people aged 75 and over. It is estimated that around 30% of EWDs are caused by cold homes, which results in over 8000 people dying unnecessarily each year. Shockingly, this is more than the number of people killed in road accidents, or through alcohol abuse.

So with this in mind, what is being done to prevent EWD’s? Well, Government initiatives such as the Energy Company Obligation (which requires energy companies to improve the energy efficiency of their most vulnerable customer’s homes), the Green Deal (which loaned money to homeowners for renewable energy sources) and more local Council led schemes, such as Warm Homes in BANES, all go some way to alleviating the problem, but the reality is that the direct and indirect effect of cold homes on health is not fully understood and further research is necessary to ensure this problem is prevented.

In the meantime, as we now know more about the impact of cold homes on health, I think it’s completely justifiable for us to hit the sales and buy some more clothes, purely in the interest of staying warm and healthy… right?!

 

Science, goblins and the new fiver: why 2017 will be a good year

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📥  Department of Architecture & Civil Engineering, Postgraduate

Winston off-duty. Image courtesy of The International Churchill Society.

It’s scarcely worth repeating that 2016 was full of surprises – of which many people were happy, many not happy. As for many other walks of life, science faces uncertain times.

Despite the UK Government’s promise to safeguard existing EU Horizon 2020 funding until the UK leaves the EU, there are concerns of leaner times ahead. Cold hard cash aside, the general zeitgeist is perhaps also concerning for a scientist. The Oxford English Dictionary’s recognition of “post-truth” as a word, plus a famous person being quoted as “having had enough of experts”, has created something of an edgy mood.

Throughout all this uncertainty, I am personally buoyant about science’s prospects in 2017. In the spirit of the year just passed, this is for an unashamedly emotional, subjective reason, all thanks to an unlikely union of people.

First of the odd couple, the man behind Gnarlak the goblin in the film “Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them” – otherwise known as Ron Perlman. Secondly, the new face of the £5 note – one Sir Winston Churchill. In an interview with The Big Issue, Perlman spoke passionately about the value of arts, saying:

“I’m with Churchill – we need to cherish culture. It celebrates our commonalities”

Ron Perlman, Interview with The Big Issue, no.1231, 14 November 2016

Gnarlak, a goblin played by culture champion Ron Perlman. Image courtesy of Warner Bros. Pictures

Gnarlak, a goblin played by arts champion Ron Perlman. Image courtesy of Warner Bros. Pictures

Churchill was indeed a champion of culture – particularly its value to society (though he is often misquoted in this regard).

“The arts are essential to any complete national life. The State owes it to itself to sustain and encourage them….Ill fares the race which fails to salute the arts with the reverence and delight which are their due.”

Sir Winston Churchill, Address to Royal Academy, 30 April 1938

This staunch support of culture may have partly come from Churchill’s own career in painting. It was a source of great enjoyment and relief for him. As he himself said "If it weren't for painting I could not live. I couldn't bear the strain of things."

Winston off-duty. Image courtesy of The International Churchill Society.

Winston off-duty. Image courtesy of The International Churchill Society.

But what is this to do with science?” I hear you ask. Like its fellow branches of the liberal arts, science, has its ups and downs. But like so many other aspects of human culture, it’s hardwired into our existence. It’s here to stay.

At this point in time, we are perhaps more aware than before of the differences between oneself and other citizens. This is a reason, more than ever, to seek what unites - our “commonalities”.

And science DOES unite. To give an example - standing out amongst December’s news articles about the Middle East was the arrival of SESAME. Not a puppet or seed, but the Middle East’s new particle accelerator, the “Synchrotron-Light for Experimental Science and Applications”. Scientists from Iran, Pakistan, Israel, Turkey, Cyprus, Egypt, the Palestinian Authority, Jordan and Bahrain will collaborate and do research in this new £75m facility in Jordan.

Open SESAME! The Middle East's new particle accelerator in al-Balqa, Jordan. Image courtesy of http://www.sesame.org.jo/

Open SESAME! The Middle East's new particle accelerator in al-Balqa, Jordan. Image courtesy of http://www.sesame.org.jo/

The prospect of lots of clever people from a troubled region working together to push the envelope of human scientific knowledge is something to celebrate. Likewise, in music, sport, literature etc., there is so much which humans enjoy and excel at which unites us across differences. At a time when there seem to be ever more ways to contrive conflict with others (voting preferences, cosmetic appearance, nationality, the list grows ever longer), let us always think first of the reality at hand - that quietly, so many of the things which inspire us are common to us all.

So as we look ahead to what 2017 may bring, rather than dwell on what frights us, let’s take a moment to remind ourselves of all that unites us.

A Happy New Year to you all.

Also posted at https://verycivilengineer.wordpress.com/

 

Straight into the Labs!

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📥  Department of Architecture & Civil Engineering, Postgraduate

I am currently in the second month of my PhD project, which will consist of examining materials suitable for 3D printing lightweight structures. The project will be using swarming, coordinated drones to deposit the material rather than current ground based heavy machinery.

I have dived straight into laboratory work with a small device which represents the amount of material that a single drone can carry. I have enjoyed commencing lab work early and this will help inform my reading by refining the search for suitable literature. Material investigation will focus upon cement pastes and polymers, with the starting point for my work being whether polyurethane foam may play a role in a structural material.

The device consists of two syringes and a 6V DC motor connected to rods moving the plungers up and down the syringes. Polyurethane foam has two liquid components – a resin and a hardener. The figures below show the liquids being drawn into the syringes and then deposited through an arrangement of silicon tubes with an epoxy mixer nozzle into a mould.

blog1       blog-2

Long established as insulating materials, initial syringe device operation has been carried out using standard density polyurethane foam. I have been using different machines for the first time to characterise the material, with mechanical testing in the structures laboratory, travelling to Chemical Engineering to use the Rheometer and to the Microscopy analysis suite to use the Scanning Electron Microscope and Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy. This will lead on to the investigation of higher density polyurethane foam, which has a density comparable to timber. I look forward in the coming weeks to using the techniques that I have learnt in the first month of my PhD to investigate the higher density foam and determine the structural feasibility of the material.

 

How to Design the 'Best' Paper Airplane

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📥  Department of Architecture & Civil Engineering, Postgraduate

The H.M.S. Research in very low Earth orbit.

The 'H.M.S. Research' in Very Low Earth Orbit.

One of the reasons I was interested in doing a PhD in the Department of Architecture and Civil Engineering at the University of Bath was the emphasis that the department and the university place on public engagement. Sharing research with the world and inspiring young people to pursue awesome projects in engineering and design is something I wanted to do more of!

One of the coolest such opportunities here at Bath is the University's link with the Bath Royal Literary and Scientific Institution's (BRLSI) Young Researcher's Programme (YRP). At YRP, a group of current PhD students from the University of Bath act as mentors for a cohort of 14-16 year old young researchers who spend one full year developing an completely independent research project on a question of their choosing - a "mini-PhD."

Our role as mentors is to try to convey the research process and research skills, and to inspire and guide the intellectual development of the young researchers - we are not teachers!

The photo above shows what that mentorship actually looks like!

Last Saturday, the exercise we went through with the young researcher's was the design of the "best" paper airplane. Starting out as a very open ended design brief: "Design the 'best' paper airplane.", the exercise eventually guided the young researchers through the process of defining a precise research question - "What does 'best' mean anyway?"

As we quickly learned with the young researchers, however, even with a precise research question formulated, such as "How does wingspan and wing shape affect flight distance?," we needed to develop ways of measuring both our inputs and our results. We also needed to be clear about our independent and dependent variables, and the controls in our experiment. In about 30 minutes, (all the while witnessing the design of some pretty impressive paper airplanes!) we encountered and tackled many of the major challenges every scientist and researcher faces in planning and executing real-life research!

Although we certainly hope that the young researchers left the session on Saturday inspired, and with a better sense of how the research process works, we PhD students were actually amazed at how much we had learned as well! It's easy to forget the basic rules of the scientific method when faced with something as huge and abstract as a 3 or 4 year PhD thesis - I think each of us walked away from the day with a few more tools in our research kit, and a clarified sense of how to approach our own work.

If you do end up pursuing a PhD at the University of Bath, I highly recommend getting involved with the Young Researcher's Programme or one of the similar projects, such as Code Club, happening in the Bath area. You can also become a STEM ambassador, where you have the opportunity to inspire young people about STEM, share your work to excited and bright-eyed audiences, and just have a good time doing the fun parts of STEM!

Please note: the above image is copyright of the Bath Royal Literary and Scientific Institution. Please do not reuse without permission.

 

My first academic conference (including dinner... in an aquarium!)

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📥  Department of Architecture & Civil Engineering, Postgraduate

Eating plaice in the presence of plaice

After starting my PhD recently (a month ago today to be exact),  I was lucky enough to be invited, by my second supervisor, to the Nordic Seminar on Computational Mechanics at Chalmers University, Gothenburg, Sweden. And, of course, I accepted!

With some last minute planning and already feeling like a real jetsetter, I booked my one night trip and the following week it was happening. I arrived on the second day of the conference, and jumped straight into some parallel sessions on Structural Mechanics and Optimisation. In comparison to reading papers during the first few weeks of my PhD, these 20 minute presentations were a great quick insight into this broad and complex research area, and it was a great way to meet and network with PhD students from other universities.

However, the real fun (and some bemusement) came when we were told that our conference dinner would take place at the “Universeum”. If you are asking yourself, "What is the Universeum?", you are not alone! The Universeum is a science centre (similar to @Bristol for those from my native South West) with a four-storey rainforest exhibit with sloths and other animals; a space exhibit (where I got to play a cool version of space invaders with my supervisor) and an aquarium. As we were visiting out of normal opening hours (it felt a bit like Night at the Museum), before dinner we had full access to the centre and its activities.

We were escorted into the reptile and aquarium exhibit where dinner was to be served. As you can see by the picture - it was very cool! Although, I must admit eating Plaice in front of an audience of Plaice was a new experience for me! The evening continued with lovely food, wine and a hilarious Eurovision song contest with the conference attendees. Although, I must admit me and my supervisor kept quiet when they were asking for further entries - what would we have sung anyway?!